Wednesday, February 14, 2007

They missed one???

Someone try to find this: The communion chant for the Saturday of Easter week VI when Ascension is transferred to Sunday (as it is in most places in the U.S.).

I cannot find this! I can find chants specific to each Lectionary cycle for the 6th Sunday, and specific chants for each feria (weekday), but ISTM there is a “Sabbato” missing....?

Before I email Solesmes about this to clarify, can someone make sure I am not simply missing something? Especially, if someone has a copy of the Vatican’s Ordo cantus missæ and chould check that, this might shed some light.

Speaking of which, it is lamentable that the OCM, which costs under $10, is (apparently) only available directly from Rome and costs more to ship than to buy! I would like a copy, but I’m not forking over that much....

(NB: This post edited from the original, which asked about when Ascension is not transferred. I didn’t have a Graduale in front of me and forgot that the issue is when Ascension is transferred.)

19 Comments:

At Wednesday, February 14, 2007 8:53:00 AM, Anonymous Klaus der Große said...

Graduale romanum, p. 239; the title reads as follows: "Feria sexta et sabbato post Ascensionem." IOW, the same chants are used for both Friday and Saturday. The specified communion verse is Non vos relinquam orphanos, p. 232.

 
At Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:47:00 AM, Blogger Cantor said...

Oops - ok, then I am asking about when Ascension is transferred.

 
At Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:33:00 PM, Blogger Puff the Magic Dragon said...

On Page 234
Before In Ascensione Domini (235)
There is a citation

Feria 6 (Saturday)
Missa de dominica VI Paschae, 229,praeter:
INTER Redemisti nos, Domine 659

So for the Saturday of the 6th Week of Easter would be the same chants as the Sunday of the 6th Week of Easter except for the Introit.

SO the Communion Chant - Year C would be:
Spiritus Sanctus docebit vos, alleluia: quaecumque dixero vobis, alleluia, alleluia. [John 14: 26; with Psalm 50 (51): 3a, 9-10, 11-13, 15, 17, 20]pg. 232

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:55:00 AM, Blogger Cantor said...

Puff: Feria 6 is Friday.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:38:00 AM, Blogger Puff the Magic Dragon said...

Okay, if the Ascension is NOT transferred it is on a Thursday.

So If the Ascension is not transferred, then you would follow
Feria Sexta et sabato post Ascensionem and COmmunion would be "Non vos relinquam" as Klaus said.

If the Ascension is transferred to a Sunday
Page 247 says:

Quando sollemnitas Ascensionis Domini in dominicam sequentem transfertur:

......
Aliis Feriis
Ut supra notatur, 243 et seq.
which listes a Communion Chant of
"Pater, cum essem cum eis"

That's all the GR has listed. But I am unsure which you want. THe Saturday before Ascension Sunday or the Saturday after Ascension Sunday.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:43:00 AM, Blogger Cantor said...

Puff:

I am looking for the Communion of Saturday of Easter week VI when Ascension is transferred to Sunday - which, in this case, is before Ascension.

Page 247 refers to week VII.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:20:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you are looking for Ascension Vigil.

Try looking for the Ascension Vigil Mass.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:45:00 AM, Blogger Cantor said...

Anon: No, there is still a Mass of the day. The Mass of anticipation for Ascension (technically not a “vigil Mass”) would, of course, use the same proper chants and readings as Ascension.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:58:00 AM, Anonymous Klaus der Große said...

Here we go:

Year A: Non vos relinquam orphanos
Year B: Ego vos elegi
Year C: Spiritus Sanctus docebit vos

The section for "Hebdomada sexta Paschae," starting on GR p. 229, does not have separate subsections for each day; therefore, except for the specific substitutions mentioned, the chants of the Sunday are to be used on all the days of the week as well.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:08:00 AM, Blogger Cantor said...

Klaus:

Your solution is what I would go with if I actually needed this information for a Mass; however, the fact that week III has an unmarked communion, and then specific ones for the Sundays, leads me to believe that what is specifically marked for “Dominica”, as the Easter VI Sunday communions are, does not apply to weekdays.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:46:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

E-mail Solesmes, you apparently are not going to accept any of our answers. The proper authority is either Solesmes, or maybe the Pope himself

Abbaye Saint-Pierre De Solesmes
E-mail: abbaye@solesmes.com

His Holiness Benedict, the 16th of that Name: E-Mail: benedictxvi@vatican.va

Let us know what you find out.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:18:00 PM, Anonymous Klaus der Große said...

When I get home from work I will examine the case of Easter, week 3, and parallel cases in Ordinary Time. I will also look at the rubrics in the front; they may be able to help.

Mail to Solesmes might be answered; mail to the pope is probably futile, since he does not personally write the liturgical books. Besides, I doubt he has much of a chance to read his email anyway.

 
At Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:35:00 PM, Blogger Cantor said...

Klaus - btw, that’s week III of OT, not of Easter. (Thank you in advance for checking.)

 
At Friday, February 16, 2007 10:25:00 AM, Anonymous Klaus der Große said...

Week III OT is specified like Week VI Easter; there are options on the Sunday for each of the Lectionary cycles. However, that does not invalidate the general rule; unless otherwise provided, you sing the chants of the Sunday on the days of the week. Hence, for III OT, you sing Venite post me during the week in years A and B, and Comedite pinguia in year C. Except for Wednesday, of course, when you sing Quicumque fecerit instead.

IOW, you don't need to worry that they've left something out just because there are multiple options for the Sunday. What is done on a particular Sunday carries over into the rest of the week when the days of the week do not have their own specific chants.

 
At Friday, February 16, 2007 10:43:00 AM, Blogger Cantor said...

Klaus:

Week 3 OT, though has a general antiphon and then one for Sunday A&B then one for Sunday C. This is different from Easter VI, which only specifies the Sundays.

The issue I see is the absence of an antiphon that is not marked for Sunday.

I don’t believe you are correct in asserting a general rule that the Sunday antiphon is used throughout the week unless otherwise specified. (Maybe I’m misreading you?) Easter week III, for example (GR p222): since the antiphons for Sunday A and C are marked specifically for Sunday, the general antiphon would be used at other times - specifically, Sunday B, Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday. Even in year C, then, the general antiphon would be used.

We see this same deal with the Alleluia of Easter week VI: a general one that, were your general rule followed, would be rendered useless by specific chants for each Sunday of the 3-year cycle.

Notice, too, that the general antiphons are usually psalmic, and thus do not generally connect specifically with readings. Day-specific antiphons, though, such as the others given on GR p222, are non-psalmic and usually connect more directly to readings of that specific day.

 
At Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:32:00 AM, Anonymous Klaus der Große said...

Cantor:

My bad; I completely glossed over that "general antiphon" when I was looking. (Being in a hurry to get out of the house probably had something to do with it.) I would modify my rule to be more complete, then:

-If there is a specific antiphon, use it.
-Else, if there is a nonspecific antiphon, use it.
-Otherwise, use the one of the last Sunday.

As for reading-antiphon connections...those are not guaranteed between the Graduale and the current Lectionary. Sometimes they "match," in the homilist's sense, and sometimes they don't. IOW, it's not something to worry about, nor is it a reason to believe that something is missing from the Graduale.

 
At Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:48:00 PM, Blogger Puff the Magic Dragon said...

I sent this email to Solesmes:

Dear Brothers:

What are the Proper Chants, (Introit, Offertory, and Communion ) for the Saturday of the 6th Week of Easter, when The Solemnity of the Ascension is transferred to a Sunday, and replaces the 7th Sunday of Easter?

May God bless and keep you.
Sincerely,
M. (Puff )

And received this answer from the kind brother at Abbaye Sainte Pierre De Solesmes

Dear Sister ? M.,

Take the Proper chants for the Saturday of the 6th Week of Easter in your case in 6th Sunday.
See "Ordo Cantus Missae" : "quando sollemnibus Ascensionis Domini in dominicam sequentem transfertur : feriis 5, 6 et Sabbato post dom. 6 Paschae : ut in dom. praecedente.

Have a good Lent

Fr. Patrick HALA, osb

Cantor, hopefully this answers your question.

I believe this is the same thing I told you.

 
At Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:13:00 PM, Blogger Puff the Magic Dragon said...

Scratch that last sentence, this isn't what I told you. My apologies for the presumption.

 
At Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:48:00 PM, Blogger Cantor said...

Puff,

I had wondered if the OCM would have something - but, what is interesting is that the friar’s letter would seem to be in conflict with the Graduale, which has different communions (maybe others? going from memory here) on ferias 5 and 6 than on Sunday of Easter week VI.

Anyway. The matter would seem to be resolved as to the Saturday, but now I am wondering whether the OCM or the Graduale gets priority. (The latter, recall, was revised in 1988, I believe - so it at least is more recent than the Graduale.)

 

Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home